The Radiant Mission
The Radiant Mission
104. Homeschool Success: Pam Smith’s 20-Year Journey and Christian Parenting Wisdom
What happens when public schooling isn't the right fit for your child? In this heartwarming episode, join me as I sit down with my mom, Pam Smith, to uncover her 20-year homeschooling journey. We start from the very beginning, discussing the pivotal moment when my older brother Ryan struggled in an experimental kindergarten pod system, leading us to explore and eventually embrace homeschooling. Pam opens up about the challenges and triumphs of providing a Christian-based education, reflecting on the philosophical concerns and practical difficulties she encountered along the way.
Ever wondered how to manage homeschooling multiple children with different learning styles? Pam shares her wisdom on navigating the complexities of teaching at home, from addressing the shift towards secular humanism in public schools to leveraging dual enrollment opportunities for an advanced educational experience. She provides a candid look into the daily realities of homeschooling, balancing tailored education plans, and the unique dynamics of teaching boys versus girls. Personal stories and practical advice make this chapter a must-listen for parents curious about the nuances of homeschooling.
Feeling isolated in your homeschooling journey? Discover the importance of community as Pam recounts how church and homeschool groups became our family's lifeline. These networks not only offered support and social opportunities but also facilitated collaborative efforts among families, from organizing physical education to hiring tutors for advanced subjects. We reminisce about the enriching experiences, address socialization myths, and highlight the stronger family bonds that homeschooling fosters. With encouraging words for new homeschoolers, this episode is packed with inspiration and practical tips, making it an essential listen for any Christian mom considering this educational path. Join us for an episode that promises to inform, inspire, and empower.
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Hello and welcome to the Radiant Mission podcast. My name is Rebecca Toomey and we are on a mission to encourage and inspire you as you're navigating through this wildlife and with your relationship with Christ you as you're navigating through this wildlife and with your relationship with Christ Now. I'm usually here with my co-host and sister, rachel Smith, but she's moving for the 87th time so she's going to be out for a little bit. But I am here with a very, very special guest who knows my co-host and she has homeschooled four children over the course of 20-ish years and she's here to share her experience and all of her knowledge with us today. And it is a great honor that I introduce you to my mom, pam Smith.
Speaker 1:Hello, thank you for being here today. Mom, you're welcome and she is calling in from sunny South Florida. As you can see, she's right at the beach with the waves rolling in and hopefully she can be here for our conversation, not get too distracted by the waves and the turtles and all that, just kidding. Obviously it's a beautiful background, but she is calling from Florida, which, if you listen back to the last couple of episodes where we've talked about homeschooling and introduced this topic, a lot of my reference points were from the state of Florida, and it is because I'm from Florida and my mom is, or at least has lived there for a very long time and homeschooled the majority of the time in Florida. So, anyway, there is so much that listeners can learn from you and I'm really excited that you're here to share your expertise and that you agreed and said yes, so let's just jump into it. I really want to start with what motivated you to homeschool. There's obviously a lot of different routes that you could have taken, so why did you go the homeschooling route?
Speaker 2:Well, it all started when we had our firstborn, your oldest brother, ryan, who was our only child for 11 years, and we put him in public kindergarten and immediately we were just shocked with how the classroom ran. Back then they were trying something called a pod system, so they had a big, giant room like a gymnasium and four groups of kids in each corner and a teacher would teach. Each corner was a classroom and so it was very distracting and Ryan, I guess, being an only child for so many years, just was not used to all the noise and he was very frustrated. It was very hard for him to pay attention and learn in that environment.
Speaker 1:So halfway through, it was a big room, it was like one big room, and then there was just corners of kids. It was like one.
Speaker 2:It was like a big gymnasium and there and in each corner was a classroom.
Speaker 2:It was all, I think the four kindergarten classrooms, and it was just very difficult for any of the kids. They called it the pod system. I guess it was to save room and maybe some of the teachers helped each other. I'm not sure, but it did not work for Ryan. He was a very well. You each other, I'm not sure, but it did not work for Ryan. He was a very well. You know him. He's very quiet and laid back and he used to come home like a Mexican jumping bean and he he just he didn't thrive in that environment. So we immediately started looking for alternatives and since we only had one child and we were both working, we opted for Christian school. We hadn't even heard of homeschool back then. I don't even know if it was. Many were doing it, because that would have been like in the 70s.
Speaker 1:I was just going to say when. What time period was this? Late 70s early?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, kindergarten he would have been. He was born in 73. So I've been like 78, 79. So it was very difficult. But we researched and we found what we thought was a good Christian school. So we put him in there and it went well for several years. And then some things came up and we ran into some issues, doctrinal issues, with that school. So we found another school, we put him in and everything went great for several years.
Speaker 2:But you always, you know, realize you have different doctrines and then, even though a church school might say they're non-denominational, they still are run by a church and will have those doctrines. So sometimes you run into those issues or just get a bad teacher. You know different issues. So by middle school we were running into problems with him. One of the main things is he was bored. He was very advanced, he could remember things easily and he didn't need to hear something 10 times. And most of the time in traditional school they teach to the lowest denominator, so they repeat things a lot and so the kids that are advanced, unless they're in advanced classes, they're kind of held behind.
Speaker 2:So I ran into I had met a friend, your Aunt Pam Scarlotta, and she was having issues as well with her son, who was a similar age, and she heard about homeschooling. So she was the first one to tell me about homeschooling. That was probably in around, I think, 1983 or 84 when I first heard about it. So she was on a research mission and I went along with her and we both started homeschooling. But I just wanted to say the first and foremost we chose Christian school at the time. That was only our alternative to public school, because we wanted to our to have a Christian education. We felt strongly impressed by the Lord to do our best to bring our children up in biblical ways, and that's one of the reasons traditional public school did not meet that need. There's been so many suppressions in public school about the Bible and biblical things and I just can't imagine these days, oh yeah, being in public school. I mean it wasn't even near like it is now. Back then it was, you know, it was actually a much safer place. But with Pam Scarlatta we were researching a lot of things and we did find that there were just all these secularism, humanism things coming up and we started to see them. So that's why we said, if we can't even get satisfied with Christian school, then we're going to try homeschooling. So that was about probably 1984, 83 or 84, because I was pregnant with Nathan.
Speaker 2:When I started homeschooling Ryan and I was actually working at the time. I had given notice, but they needed a couple of months, so the first few months he was about 11. So I was directing him from work before I retired. And you know he was very good at being self-directed. He loved to read, he liked he was kind of like you and like to get his stuff done and it also gave him more time. He was very involved in the boy scout program when it was different at that time. So it gave him a lot of time to to do that and enabled him to become an Eagle Scout in two years, which is usually a four to six year job. But he could spend a lot of time doing that. He learned so much. It was just a real benefit to you know get for him to be homeschooled. There really was little information back then so we just had to wing it and with the Lord's help I feel we were able to. He led us to the right places.
Speaker 2:When we first started there was no law in the state of Florida. Homeschoolers were considered to be under the private school law. So what we did was set up a little private school and we homeschooled under it. But then the state was coming after or going after a lot of people, mostly pastors, because they traveled and brought their children with them and they were going after them for the truancy laws. So my husband and I or dad we got involved in politics that was our first encounter with politics and we started lobbying our state representatives to pass a law, and it took about a year and a half and we got a decent law. It wasn't perfect, it wasn't what you know. What we want would be no having to answer to the government at all, but it was okay. So we accepted that. We even found out the representative, daniel Webster, who wrote the bill. He ended up homeschooling his family as well. So that was really cool. But most of the representatives were very open to it. Many of them had never heard of it either.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, so it was a real learning. What did the law entail? What was the bill about it?
Speaker 2:gave homeschoolers the I guess you'd say permission to homeschool, and the accountability was we had to do annual testing and give a report to the state. Okay, so at the end of each year there's so many Over time we found that there was, you know, through the homeschool organizations we all got together, we hired people to do testing. We had help with evaluators you know, I'll get to that in another when we get on another topic but there was just a lot of camaraderie and a lot of others that would help. So at the end of the year we do the test, a report and the testing, and we turn that in and I don't even think they looked at it. We never, we never hear anything except thank you, sure, you're graduated to the next year.
Speaker 1:And wasn't? Truancy was a big issue back then too right If they found you at the store. I mean where, where'd we go back then Kmart the store?
Speaker 2:I mean where did we go back then? Kmart? Yeah, you know, it was very scary because, you know, if we went in public places during the day, people were always saying why are your kids out of school? You know, and they tried to interrogate you guys as well.
Speaker 1:But after the law was passed. It's such a different world now, isn't it? I know?
Speaker 2:After the law was passed, we didn't worry about it. But sometimes I'd say get down. If we went by a cop car or something, what are they going to do? Take the kid to jail? No, go, drop him off at school. I don't know what they'd do, but we just heard horror stories of how they'd come after pastor's kids and take them away.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it was like a.
Speaker 2:CPS situation. Yeah, they'd call CPS on them saying they had them out of school. But after the law was passed, I will say that even though we had the law, many of us still joined homeschool organizations, mainly because they would help us keep records and they would offer discounts or they would offer curriculum, and especially in high school. I don't think I worried about it till high school, but we would get a nice transcript from what looked like an official school that we could submit to colleges, so that was a benefit.
Speaker 1:um, and not like an umbrella right yes, an umbrella school yeah yeah, I mentioned that on the last episode because we talked about college, high school years and college and kind of how, in many states, you can do dual enrollment or early enrollment and, as a homeschooler, if you are in a state that has an umbrella program, you can work under that umbrella.
Speaker 1:I want to circle back real quick, though, to what you mentioned about the curriculum changing and the humanism part of it, because we mentioned actually I guess I want to say it was two episodes ago that one of the big reasons for many people choosing to homeschool is because they have control over the curriculum and what their children are taught, and that back when you made the decision to start homeschooling was the time in which evolution began to be put into the school system. Prior to the 70s, I mean, there was barely a mention of it, except that one person wanted to teach it in a school and they brought it to the courts, and then after that it was legalized to technically teach evolution. So then in the 80s they really rolled this out, and you were really right in the middle of that, because you weren't taught evolution when you were in school, right?
Speaker 2:Not the way that it's taught now or back then. No, when we were in school, we had prayer, pledge, allegiance, you know. The Bible was on the teacher's desk, it and there was discipline. It was just totally different and it was education. Now, these days it's a lot of social stuff that they teach, but in addition to evolution, there also, like I said, was secular humanism. We could see that they were starting to just focus on humanism.
Speaker 1:To me as a religion, Tell me a little bit about. What does that mean for someone who doesn't know what secular humanism is? It's when people.
Speaker 2:We put humans first before God. So it's what I want. Or back then there would be examples of if 20 people were in a boat and you had to get rid of two of them, and one of them was disabled and another one was a child or somebody was overweight or you know some type of disability, who would you get rid of? And of course, the students would say oh, the fat one or the disabled one, or the kids, you know.
Speaker 1:Was that the right answer? Is that that's the answer they were looking for? That's, yeah, that's what they were trying to teach.
Speaker 2:That sounds like a eugenics agenda, no Right Survival of the fittest, Just thinking of yourself instead of others, of yourself instead of others. You know it's just totally opposite to us of biblical manners and biblical laws and you know, like the Ten Commandments, they just don't honor them anymore. It's more about me, me, me. Yeah, it's only gotten worse, right? So that was what we were beginning to see in school and, like I said with Ryan, just our short time in kindergarten was chaos and I just couldn't see how he was going to learn even what they were teaching in that environment. Now I think you know they figured out that the pod system didn't work and they went back to regular classrooms. I understand, but we just never went back to a public school after that. As I said, he was in Christian school where we knew he was being taught the Bible and manners and very disciplined, following rules.
Speaker 1:That's kind of the problem with public school, though, isn't it that they're always experimenting? Yes, Like, the students are lab rats in the sense that they're experimenting on them with does this curriculum work? Does this structure work? Does this they're? I mean, I guess you've got to test things on somebody, but it almost is to the point that you know you're putting your children in the position that anything could happen. They could be taught anything at any time by any person, and I think that that's something that really you recognize right away. No, my child is not an experiment. He's not functioning in this system well, so that's cool that you and you'll also encounter, you know, if you get a bad teacher.
Speaker 2:Rachel got a bad teacher. She did go to public high school, as you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she talked about that last episode she wanted to go and all it takes.
Speaker 2:you know, as a bad teacher, you have a terrible year. It's to me that's just awful and there's not much you can do about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, there's not. So then you had more kids. You know you mentioned you had Nate, then you had me, then you had Rachel, so then you had four kids to homeschool. So then you have four kids to homeschool.
Speaker 2:So some of the challenges then were I had started teaching. Ryan could read, write and everything you know. He was middle school he's about eighth grade when I started homeschooling, so you know, in one way he was easy. I didn't have to. I hadn't taught the basics of reading, writing and all that you know. But of course high school does get harder. I will mention, though, when he turned 16, we were able to get involved in dual enrollment, and you probably talked about that already then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did mention that. Yeah, three out of the four of us started college early, so he was the first yeah, so that was, but you didn't have that opportunity if you went to school oh, I didn't know that. Okay, so if you went to school you couldn't do early enrollment or dual enrollment, but if you were homeschooled, you well could.
Speaker 2:Well, they were just starting it, so it wasn't the public schools were. They really didn't want students to do that because that took away from their money, so they discouraged the dual enrollment. But we homeschoolers jumped on it because you know, if you were ready, you might as well go on and get your college education done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why waste four years homeschooling when you can only do?
Speaker 2:two, yeah, and most of the time college classes are geared toward that subject. I mean, when I went back to school I found some classes to be a joke, but you know most of them they're so basic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're so basic, those first two years anyway.
Speaker 2:Once you get past those, you know, then you're heavy duty into your major and it's very educational and technical and whatever, but anyway. So he was easier when you guys came along and you have to teach him to read. I hadn't done that before and it was scary because we didn't have a whole lot of choices back then like you do now. But I chose a curriculum called Christ-centered curriculum that somebody had just written a Christian school, a lady at a Christian school had written, and it was so detailed I was tearing my hair out and I found it difficult with my son, second-born son. But I found out also boys don't learn the same as girls. But that's one of the big advantages of homeschool is you can tailor it to your children's needs and learning styles. Yes, and learning styles.
Speaker 2:Yes, and learning styles?
Speaker 1:Every child's a little bit different, even between girls and boys, even between girls and girls.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true, but I will say from experience, girls are a little bit easier in the beginning and I believe I did a lot of studying and found that, um, boys are more proficient in large motor skills, um, in the early years, whereas girls are more proficient in fine motor skills. I mean you, you, you sit you three down to color and Nathan would be done in two minutes and hardly color in lines, but he was done. He said he was finished and that was all he wanted to do, and you and Rachel would sit there for an hour and color a beautiful multicolored portrait. And that's just the difference between boys and girls. He's always been more athletic and there are subjects that he was much better at, but most of the time I found it more challenging to teach girls who were more like me, probably in my learning styles, than boys. You mean less challenging.
Speaker 1:Yes, less challenging, yes, yes, yes, I could totally understand that. You know, Brooke is only four and a half. She's not quite into it all yet, but she definitely can sit down and color for an hour, sometimes two. She'll color things. Now she's using scissors. She'll cut it out. She's very creative. She loves to do all that stuff play with Play-Doh, make and create things. So I'm seeing a lot of that already and I've told you that when it comes to reading, she likes to write, she likes to practice writing her letters and she likes to actually sit down and do school. So it's going to be interesting to see the difference between you know that and wild man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you will see a big difference. I mean, it's, it's, it's good. I don't want it to sound like it's it's a bad thing. It's difficult in that you know if your style is different than the child's style, then you have to research and you know, find out and get to their level and use something that works with them, like what one curriculum for one child may not work for another.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if I I found I had liked to use the rod and staff English. Yeah, oh yeah, which was very detailed, and is that the one with the diagramming, diagramming sentences, learning everything you can imagine about grammar, and you liked it. Rachel was like she'd do it, but she didn't enjoy it, and Nathan just struggled with it. You know to, to remember all that, um, and, like I said, though, we didn't have a whole lot of choices back then.
Speaker 1:That is a benefit to today is there are so many curriculums and a lot of people will go to homeschool conferences and they can actually look and see what the curriculums are out there. Because I mean you could spend, you could drop some money on curriculum Right.
Speaker 2:Well, back then most of our only choices were whatever Christian schools were using or public school books, saxon math toward homeschoolers than other regular math books. But we used a Becca, bob Jones, a lot of the mainstream Christian school books and it was like it was so much repetition. But you don't need that in homeschool. You do in a big classroom to make sure all the kids are getting it, but in homeschool you don't need to do all that repetition. So it made it a little difficult to gear it down. It took, you know, took me several years to realize that you don't have to do every page in a book. So it probably was tough on y'all at the beginning until we you know they started creating more stuff. We eventually went to the Life life packs. Um, it was called alpha omega back then. Remember those used to work in like workbooks and then they put it on the computer, switched on schoolhouse yes, uh, no, it wasn't switched on.
Speaker 2:It was uh still alpha omega, but um, on the on the computer, okay, but that was like well into the 90s um that was still early days for us to be using computers.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I think about oh yeah you were an early adopter to computers. We didn't.
Speaker 2:When I first started homeschooling, we did not have the internet. Everything was done by snail mail. If I wanted to find out anything, I um subscribe to newsletters from other organizations.
Speaker 1:It real mail, just so everybody knows what she's saying we would subscribe.
Speaker 2:I subscribe to a lot of different homeschooling groups and organizations to get all the information I could, depending on what state we lived in. I joined the statewide group and we did have curriculum fairs and those were very, very helpful to go there and look at the curriculum and each year there'd be more new stuff, more geared toward homeschoolers, be more new stuff, more geared toward homeschoolers. So that was a lot of fun, very interesting, and I'd be able to see something. A lot of times right away I could say, oh boy, I'm glad I saw that you would not do good with that. And then at some of the curriculum fairs they would have seminars. We could sign up for classes and there would be English teachers, math, all kind of different teachers teaching them to give us guidance, and so that was helpful.
Speaker 2:We just soaked up all the information we possibly could, going to various seminars and reading all kind of newsletters, various seminars and reading all kind of newsletters. And then it probably was in the mid-90s that um started getting on the internet. But even then in the beginning, oh, I don't know if it was google. I'm trying to think how we searched. It was different in the beginning, you know they didn't have all the information.
Speaker 1:Huh, Did Yahoo have a search? Maybe?
Speaker 2:AOL had a search. Yeah, yeah, I can't even remember. I was mostly on in the beginning. It was, I think, aol Parody, I can't remember the name of it. Prodigy, prodigy, yeah, and so I found other homeschoolers on that. It was more like a chat board.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we got to talk about your forum. You joined I think it was homeschoolmomscom or something like that Right, and it was a forum back then.
Speaker 2:I was on a lot of forums and a lot of groups. Okay, one of the benefits for me of homeschooling was we moved a lot, remember.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do remember. We moved six times in six years.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was a benefit for you all Because if you'd been in traditional school that would have been so hard. You know, getting in and out of school and in different states there are different levels in each grade, and not only just physically but even mentally. It's so hard. My dad was in the Navy and we moved every two years growing up and it was hard. So I was so thankful that we homeschooled because that our, your education didn't change. It was all the same, always the same. We knew where to pick up, where, when it was time to start again after our move, so that was a real benefit for us. Um, yeah, there's a lot of freedom with that. Yes, I was going to say one of the biggest benefits is freedom to do what you feel is best for your family and you know, as Christians we could teach you what the Bible said and not have any interference from the government or government schools.
Speaker 1:I love that. Now, something that a lot of people are concerned about when it comes to homeschooling is the socialization, of course. They always say how are your kids going to get socialized and being around other kids and families, and what is mom going to do? I think that there's this mindset that everybody's just like sitting in their house alone forever doing this homeschool thing. But let's talk about community. How did you build a community? You've already shared a lot of that so far, but how did you build community?
Speaker 2:um, what we would do.
Speaker 2:Uh, first thing, when we moved, we would find a church right away I mean, probably within the first couple of weeks start visiting churches and let's see.
Speaker 2:By then we may have been on the internet and I could find out some information about churches, but I would try to find out if they had other homeschooling moms not necessarily a homeschooling group, but other homeschooling moms. And if they did, then you know we joined that church and start getting together with other moms, and some churches had homeschool groups and it just was a big, big asset to be involved in a homeschool group back then, just for the support, for the information, and then to get together with other families. We would meet in the parks and we started doing physical education together. Most of us were very creative and responsible, take on the responsibility of teaching and some moms would watch the little ones so that other moms could teach the a school-aged children. So we did a lot of that. That was so that was important to me to find other homeschool moms and an organization, if possible whenever we moved through church, because that was important to us.
Speaker 1:Some people might call over time those started to have more named definitions like a co-op, homeschool co-op or homeschool group. In the beginning you might have just had people you got together with, other moms you got together with, and then that kind of evolved to joining homeschool groups and what we might call co-op today.
Speaker 2:Well, I'd always try to have a group be involved with a group in a church because it would be smaller and we could really support each other. Then I'd look for like a statewide or even citywide. When we lived in Charlotte they actually had, I think, four homeschool organizations, but a lot of times they weren't Christian organizations. So they might be helpful because they'd have curriculum, fairs and physical education classes and stuff. If they weren't teaching you all you know values biblical values that we, or non-biblical values, or teaching things that we didn't agree with, we would participate. Or teaching things that we didn't agree with, we would participate. And if we found that we didn't like an organization, then we would try to get our local church group to help us with participation, start a little co-op and teach classes there at the school as needed.
Speaker 2:As children get older it gets a little tougher in the higher level classes and some moms find it very challenging. So we would get together and hire tutors sometimes to teach a specific class like higher math. Or I taught some myself. I taught biology, lab, public speaking and I found a lot of those courses really helped me, you know. As you know, I went back to college myself and that public speaking class that I taught.
Speaker 1:I taught a couple classes and really helped me a lot. It's funny that you mentioned that, because Rachel and I mentioned it last time. We talked about Tony Carboni teaching math and then we also mentioned that, that you taught some classes and we talked about that speech class. That speech class was great, and you did a writing lab too, you did a writing lab. I remember doing biology lab and remember you kept all the little critters in your closet. Where are you going to do your homeschool? You know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. They were all in boxes In formaldehyde, so you know it's like that's the life, that's right.
Speaker 1:We had a lot of fun doing that, though, and I do want to jump on what you said about you going back to school. You went back to school when I went to college, and we actually crossed over. We took theater appreciation together, and that was so much fun. We had to go see a really strange play as our homework and but we had a good time.
Speaker 2:Well, and it was a very secular course and we were able to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, it was.
Speaker 2:And and and and support each other through some of the craziness of that. But that I mean, that's just the fact that that was probably nothing compared to what they're learning these days in school and college.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it was ramping up at that time. It was just beginning, because we're talking early 2000.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you were in dual enrollment and then, I guess, about two years later, when you were in college or you'd gone to the transfer to the university.
Speaker 1:Then at one time four of us were in college at the same time, so that was really interesting. Nate was in, he went first, and then me, then you, then Rachel. That's funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were all in school, all interesting, all at different schools too and and so we can mention that, even though I didn't have a college education, you can still homeschool. Yeah, it, it's uh, um, it's not necessary. If you can read and write and you love the Lord and your children, god will give you the ability and the skills and the tools to do it.
Speaker 1:She's selling herself short, you guys. She's being too humble. I have to mention what she went back to school for was computer programming, because she's a genius. Who goes back to school for computer programming as an adult? Only someone who's really smart. So don't sell yourself short.
Speaker 2:Well, when computers came out in about 1990, I think it was I remember we lived in Charlotte and that was the first time I was on the internet. But it was so different back then. There was no graphics, it was all just typing words.
Speaker 1:It was a different time, for sure, definitely. So what would you say is your favorite part about homeschooling? What did you enjoy the most?
Speaker 2:Well, I'd say my favorite thing is the freedom to do whatever you want to do. No one can tell you what you can do, so you can tailor it how you see fit, to your family, to each child. Another thing would be you're home with your kids all the time. I mean, it does get tiring and you need a break what are you talking about?
Speaker 2:you got tired of us, but you know, you, you, I just think of all of the, especially these days. I see kids get on the bus at like 7 am and they don't get home till 3 am, 3 pm, 3 am, 3 pm. Um, my grandson, uh, he gets home at like 5 30 and he probably has homework and then if there's anything going on in the evening then they hardly see their kids.
Speaker 1:It's so like how it's like being a worker already. It's like he's employed, like he has a job. Yeah, he goes to school longer than most people work, I know.
Speaker 2:It's crazy. I mean, school did not used to be as long as it is now. They've had to change it because they add so much to it Instead, if they just taught the basics, what's necessary, they could probably have school from eight to one, but there's just so much else that they add to it and they partially do this as a way for parents to have somewhere where kids are.
Speaker 1:So they want two people. You know the government wants mom and dad working.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's become a babysitting thing as well. They have the after-school care, so they're trying to meet those needs and keep everybody employed.
Speaker 1:I guess, and they're also trying to create workers. That's what they want us to be is tax-paying workers. So you got to train them up to go sit down and work.
Speaker 2:So you got to train them up to go, sit down and work. So I found it rewarding most of the time to be home with you guys to be able to do what we wanted to when we wanted to go. Do you know, field trips, learn historical things it just it was a real blessing to. I still remember our times when you guys were little, reading our books before lunch, little house on the prairie and then going and cooking our food and it was a blast I remember that too and theody Brothers books.
Speaker 1:We did that series.
Speaker 2:Anne of.
Speaker 1:Green Gables series. We did so many different ones that.
Speaker 2:Five Little Peppers and how they Grew. You should read that to.
Speaker 1:Brooke, there you go. That's a good idea.
Speaker 2:Also some of the other. My favorite things were the camaraderie between other homeschool moms, no-transcript relation with them because they're homeschooling too and there's just an understanding with with them and you can you make a lot of good, close friends during those years and also you can do your extracurricular things like piano, music, some of those lessons, painting, art during the day when other people are in school. You know, get that out of the way, that can be part of your school during the day. So you know, homeschool kids aren't usually up late at night doing homework and school can be done, you know, in a couple hours instead of eight hours a day. Um, also you can spend time on the subjects that are needed or if your child has an interest.
Speaker 2:Um, you know I you remember matthew neal that she did homeschool him some, but he was just naturally talented in art so he was able to really spend a lot of time on his artwork during those years when he was homeschooled. Also, my husband traveled a lot so when he was home we could take off school and spend time with him and do a lot of things as a family, whereas if he, if he, if you guys, went to school, you probably wouldn't have seen your dad very much. Yeah, probably never would have seen him.
Speaker 2:He traveled, usually Monday through Thursday, many of those years when you were young. Another benefit is flexibility. You can do school as you see fit. You can personalize the curriculum to each child's need. I think it builds stronger bonds between your family, between members of your family. Siblings depend on each other, hopefully grow up and be best friends.
Speaker 1:Grow up and start a podcast together, talk about everything together. Yeah, it's funny because we grew up together, rachel and I, so close that our voices sound the same. We had the same reflections, and people listen to this podcast and they don't know who is who.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:Me too, sometimes I'm listening Is that?
Speaker 2:Rebecca or Rachel.
Speaker 1:Hey, I'm not trying to throw her under the bus, but Rachel's the one that says, um, I kid, I kid. But you can use that to differentiate a little bit. But yeah, I think our voices sound so much the same that Brooke says that to me all the time. She says your voice sounds like Rachel at certain times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you do. And another thing that's, I guess, good about homeschooling are social, the social aspects of it, social skills. I think that we can teach the social skills in a safe environment when our kids are at home. We can control how much social events they're involved in and that way if we see anything that's questionable or is affecting them, then we can change it. You send them off to traditional school or even Christian school and you don't even know what they're being taught socially.
Speaker 1:No, you have no idea what kids are talking about amongst each other either.
Speaker 2:Right until you start seeing some of that. And how can you change it if they're in school? So? And then other people always say, I mean, this was the biggest issue that non-homeschoolers always brought up is oh man, how do your kids be social? And I used to laugh because you know, we went to church. We were always getting together. I thought, man, you're social enough, too social, yeah, too social. So I don't. I just think that's always funny when people bring that up because that was really never an issue. I guess it might be if people were hermits and didn't get out.
Speaker 1:I was going to say it goes back to that image of people thinking that homeschoolers just sit at home by themselves all the time. But that's just not the case. The vast majority of homeschoolers are involved in groups and some sort of community learning.
Speaker 2:I also think that homeschooling teaches independence. I mean I see that in all four of you and also if you're geared for higher academic excellence, you achieve it. You become more independent, you work on your own. I mean it may take several years the elementary years is the training years but as you get to middle and high school, then you become more independent and you're able to advance in the higher level subjects if you want to.
Speaker 1:Hey, if you think about it, all four of your children have graduated with at least bachelor's degrees. Right, and all four of your kids have started their own businesses too at some point.
Speaker 2:Right and and one has a master's degree.
Speaker 1:We won't say who that one is, and one has a master's degree. There you go.
Speaker 2:Right. All of you are very successful in in your business or you know your endeavors.
Speaker 1:And then homeschooling. Now, right Now, we've been set up to train up the next generation, and both of my older brothers have homeschooled off and on. Both of my older brothers have homeschooled off and on. We know Rachel's homeschooling because she has been talking about it for the last two, three episodes. And then obviously, I'm on my way there. My kids are a little young, but we're getting started, so it was a great way to get us into homeschooling too was to grow up in it and get to see what it's like.
Speaker 2:I know I wondered if you would. I used to think about it if you would homeschool your own children. So it's a real blessing to see it happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I don't really even know that there's an alternative. It's too crazy out there.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:Kids to school crazy out there.
Speaker 2:I know Kids to school. I just I can't imagine. I pray for my grandchildren every day it's.
Speaker 1:It's a different world. Yeah, yeah, Some of the grandkids are in public school and you know just different, different settings. So definitely we pray for them and what they're exposed to and different times in their life. But yeah, homeschooling has so many benefits but it also can be hard sometimes. Yes, Right, yes. So talk to us a little bit about what you think or feel was the most challenging part or parts of homeschooling.
Speaker 2:One of the most challenging things to me was teaching multiple children who are in different grades and meeting the needs. In the beginning I wanted to try to teach such subjects together and of course, reading was easy not teaching you to read, I'm talking about reading class. Reading books together. That was easy. But then, depending on the grade you're in, you would have to read different books than the others. But also, if you're like two years apart, it's easier to teach some subjects together. But once you start getting older and in the higher math and science, then you've got to separate it and some kids have to advance in their courses. So that was harder, keeping up with all the details.
Speaker 2:For some of us that aren't quite as organized as others. Keeping all the paperwork and everything that you had to turn into the state. A lot of times we would. I think a lot of homeschoolers feel insecure when it comes to teaching upper-level classes. So that's why, to meet that need, we sought out professionals, tutors, other homeschool moms who had been teachers to teach subjects and we get together for a co-op. That really helped and met the need and would help us feel like we were doing the right thing with our kids.
Speaker 2:Other issues would be overscheduling, doing too much. Sometimes I'd find that that's what was happening giving you too many subjects. Some of you found it easy and some of you did not, and and it just takes time to realize what's really necessary. Like I said in the beginning, I use regular textbooks and there's just so much repetition in them that you don't need to do it all, so that it's just something you have to figure out what's necessary and what's not. Another issue that might be a little difficult is separating being a parent from the teacher. You know you get when the mom, you can get frustrated as a mom. You really have to watch it as a teacher, so that's probably a pretty common challenge. It's for the children to respect you as a teacher as well as your mom, and for me to respect each of my children and what they're capable of doing and my expectations. I found that sometimes pretty challenging.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can imagine it can't be easy to teach different kids at different ages with different learning styles, and it's like you know what one can do here and the other one you're like, I know you could do this, you're just not applying yourself or whatever the case might be, and it can get tough.
Speaker 2:Yes, the the. Everybody has a different learning style and passion. I don't know if you remember be working with one of you in one room and another one would be yelling the answers to something from another room. It was fun though.
Speaker 1:I remember, particularly with math, if I couldn't figure something out, I would come to you and say I can't figure this out, and you'd say, okay, let's figure this out, what do you think? And you'd ask me so many questions. I'd be like just tell me the answer, just tell me, tell me. But you're like, the whole point is that you're learning. You need to learn how to do this right now that came from my dad.
Speaker 2:My dad used to do that to me when I was, you know, would come to him with my algebra and calculus and stuff and after a while thought does he not know it, and is that why he's asking me questions? He?
Speaker 1:did. Yeah, you know, I had the same question as a kid. So what's the answer? Did you really not know and you just want to meet it? Figure it out on my own.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we do have to go look it up.
Speaker 1:I can imagine. I mean, math is hard enough as it is, so I couldn't imagine having to know everything about math all of the time as your kids get older. I mean, most of us don't use algebra on a day-to-day basis, so it's not something that's going to just stick in our brains.
Speaker 2:So it makes sense. That's true, that's true.
Speaker 1:Now, what else would you like to share about your experience? Or maybe some encouraging words for parents that are maybe they're new to homeschooling or struggling?
Speaker 2:I would say, if you're just starting out, to start simple. Don't try to overdo things. Don't try to do 10 subjects and get involved in everything. Start simple, try to investigate the curriculum and go with something that's easier than like a straight textbook, because if you're a teacher then it's a different story. I have run into a lot of homeschoolers that moms were teachers and it's a lot easier for them because they're used to having to skim curriculum and figure out what to do. But a lot of them have challenges too. They seem to have more challenges wanting to homeschool their own children. I'm not sure why, but I found many teachers say I can never do my own kids. But I don't know, I never thought that. I think they're worried about the structure a lot of times. I don't know, I didn't, I never. I never thought that.
Speaker 1:So I thought I think they're worried about the structure a lot of times because I talked to a couple of moms that were elementary school teachers and then they're nervous to homeschool their own kids. And I'm like why? And they just feel nervous about failing or just about the structure, because they think that the day is eight hours. And I'm like you don't have to do school for eight hours, especially not in kindergarten, that's right.
Speaker 2:Probably an hour a day for kindergarten is all you really need Absolutely. And starting simple. That's one of the things, and I told Rachel that if you just do 15 minutes, I mean it really depends on the child. Some children like Brooke could probably go an hour. I don't recommend that at that age, though.
Speaker 2:I think that's just because then, if they like it that much, then you might have to be more involved and spend many hours teaching them when you don't have the time, but they don't need it because they're going to repeat some of it. I say start simple, try not to get too involved in too many things. I think the main thing is to start your day with prayer and pray and ask the Lord to help you meet the needs of each child, to study and use the curriculum you feel is best for each child, and pat yourself on the back each day that if you get through it, if you don't, you got the next day to catch up. Many times we would if we had to take off, because we'd move. We would just reevaluate what was necessary Because, as I said, if you're using textbooks, there's so much that's not necessary in there so much that's not necessary in there.
Speaker 2:Get involved with other like-minded homeschoolers. Find a group that you agree with their values and get involved as much as you can Participate. Get your kids involved if you feel you need to. If you don't, then you don't, but a lot of times it helps to encourage your children. Do you feel like when we go on events or physical education or whatever?
Speaker 2:being involved with small groups encouraged you, helped you to oh yeah, definitely To want to do stuff. Yeah, yeah, I enjoy that and get involved in the community. I don't know if you remember you guys were involved in singing groups and choral groups. How could I forget? Yeah, I think all that helped for you to be able to be in front of people in the public and communicate.
Speaker 1:It's funny you say that, because I used to be very shy. I know you were, you were, I was very shy, but I think that those things gradually helped me to get more and more out of my shell right. Being in a singing group and having to be on stage and sing in front of people I was terrified. I did not enjoy that at the time. It was scary. I liked singing but I didn't necessarily want to be in the spotlight. And now, now, I'm not nervous or worried at all about talking.
Speaker 2:Right, all those things add up. You know, over the years of being involved in in the community and social events and being involved in church and church events. Events and being involved in church and church events because, to me, church was an integral part of your education as well, because they teach the bible in church as well, um, and in bible studies that you would go to as well. So, yeah, yeah I, I find that that's a. It all leads to your education as an adult being involved in music we did plays with groups and being involved in the tutoring classes. I think it all adds up and contributes to your ability as an adult.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Now. What about moms feeling overwhelmed and that they never get a minute to themselves?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's important that you get away. You get out and have a little time to yourself. When you guys were little, to me it was a treat to go grocery shopping at nine o'clock at night, after everybody's in bed, just to go to the grocery store by myself, with nobody hanging on me or slowing me down, and I could look and read the labels and decide what I wanted. I found that rewarding. But also trying to get out with other moms, maybe once a month for a dinner or a lunch, or go to homeschool retreats or homeschool curriculum fairs. I think it's important that we communicate with other people because you support one another. I had friends. I would call and cry and say I can't do this anymore, it's too hard, I want to quit, and they would encourage me and by the time I hung up I was all refreshed and okay, you need to, your husband needs to, will need to watch the kids sometimes and you just go out and go to a park or go get your nails done or do something for yourself.
Speaker 2:So you have a little time to yourself. Every mom needs that anyway. So you have a little time to yourself. Every mom needs that anyway. But I think, especially a homeschooling mom, because we have a dual role as a teacher and a mom and, depending especially if you have two, three, four kids, it's overwhelming. Your whole day is with your children. Education or chores, or breaking up stuff, meals every day, every day the same thing or meeting other needs wears you out. So you do need a break now and then. So I encourage moms to try to get out and do something with other moms or for themselves.
Speaker 1:Try to get out and do something with other moms or for themselves. Yeah, how has your break been? I think you haven't been homeschooling now for probably 20 years at this point, because we've all been graduated and moved on. Have you been enjoying your peace and quiet?
Speaker 2:I, just as you know probably in the I forget how many years it was Even though I was homeschooling you guys, I was working as well at home on the computer. I started out writing technical books for a company and doing a lot of their writing articles and stuff for them and proofreading. So I was also working at the same time, which was somewhat rewarding because I got paid for that, but that opened the door for me to. You know, I was ready for work when I was done. A lot of homeschool moms. They homeschool their lives and haven't done anything else and they don't know what to do. And I'm finding many of them are going back to college, getting their degree and teaching public school and then ripping their hair out, but that's what they feel. Well, gosh, I've taught all my life, so I'm just going to get a teaching degree and teach, and it's quite a different story teaching in the public school than teaching at home.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And some of them have gotten jobs in Christian schools, but apparently the pay isn't near as good as public school.
Speaker 1:No, there's a hundred other jobs you could do to make better money than being a teacher.
Speaker 2:Yes, I know it's terrible that education isn't as rewarding, but so, by the time I was done homeschooling, I did go. Oh, I went to school, but I did go right into the workforce, and I've always um, I've been blessed to work from home, though, yep, so you've been working since.
Speaker 1:So what you're trying to say is you never got a break. You're still waiting for your break.
Speaker 2:Yes, I still work.
Speaker 1:I haven't retired yet. Yeah, it's about time. Huh here soon, I think.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:No one deserves a break more than you.
Speaker 2:Yes, with 13, 14 grandchildren, I need a break so I can spend more time with them.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:The other problem is now you're just watching all our kids breezing them, so I guess you're never going to get a break until you're with the Lord. Sadly, if we all live close together, I could probably just have a little school and teach them all, but you all live in too many different places.
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't know that was an open opportunity here, so maybe we could start the Pam Smith Homeschooling School. Send all the kids and that'll be great. Well, this has been awesome. Mom, thank you for coming on and sharing your wisdom, and I know that so many people get so many valuable nuggets out of this and just encouragement that they can do it. They can homeschool. Some resources to seek out. Was there anything else you wanted to share before we close?
Speaker 2:No, like I said before, if you're a Christian, you can do it with the Lord's help and just pray and ask him for guidance and he will give it to you. That's my main advice for moms.
Speaker 1:I love it Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. You're welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Awesome, and thank you all for tuning in and for being on this journey with us. If you would like to follow along outside the podcast, you can do so Instagram, Facebook, YouTube at the Radiant Mission. And today we're going to close with Proverbs 31, verses 28 through 29. This verse certainly reminded me of my mom. Her children rise up and call her blessed. Her husband also, and he praises her. Many women have done excellently. You surpass them all. We're wishing you a radiant week and we will see you next time bye everyone.
