The Radiant Mission
The Radiant Mission
125. Instinctual Motherhood: Challenging Norms & Cloth Diapering w/Haden
Motherhood is a journey filled with love, challenges, and countless decisions. In this episode of The Radiant Mission Podcast, host Rebecca Twomey welcomes Haden Johnson to discuss instinctual motherhood, co-sleeping, cloth diapering, and Elimination Communication (EC). Haden shares her story of leaving behind societal expectations to embrace a more natural, intuitive approach to parenting.
💡 What You'll Learn in This Episode:
✔️ The benefits of co-sleeping and skin-to-skin contact for bonding and development
✔️ Why Haden chose cloth diapering and her favorite brand, Grovia
✔️ How Elimination Communication helps babies potty train earlier
✔️ Overcoming societal pressures to embrace full-time motherhood
✔️ Making informed decisions about childbirth and parenting
Join us for a conversation that challenges modern parenting norms and encourages mothers to trust their instincts.
🔗 Resources Mentioned:
- Follow Haden on Instagram: @haden.lee.johnson
- Follow Haden on TikTok: @heyyden
- Grovia Cloth Diapers: grovia.com
📖 Bible Verse Mentioned:
Psalm 139:14 – I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
🔔 Follow The Radiant Mission:
- Instagram: @theradiantmission
- Facebook: @theradiantmission
- YouTube: The Radiant Mission
📢 Support the Podcast: If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share with a friend!
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Hello and welcome to the Radiant Mission Podcast. My name is Rebecca Toomey and we are on a mission to encourage and inspire you as you're navigating through your life and with your relationship with Christ. We've been in a series on being countercultural in a secular world, and today I welcome a very special guest who not only loves Jesus but recently broke the mold and went against cultural norms by having a home birth for her first baby. Hayden is now a home birth enthusiast and is all about instinctual motherhood, and her sweet family lives in Midland Texas and she is loving life as a stay-at-home mom. You can find her on Instagram at haydenleejohnson Hayden. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:There's another topic that I would love for you to. I'm love for you to share more about you know, god sending you down this path and the beautiful aspects of being a stay-at-home mom.
Speaker 2:Again, same thing with that, with being a stay-at-home mom. Even me just four or five years ago, I was very adamant on having a very successful career and being very successful. In any other realm other than motherhood, I didn't see the value in it. I didn't really know or understand what how important it is to be a mother. And then, whenever I got pregnant, the thought of me ever leaving him for longer than 30 seconds just sickened me. It was something that I knew I was not going to be able to do, and the Lord has incredibly blessed me and my husband to where I can stay at home and do nothing other than raise him and take care of him. I am so blessed to be able to do that. And, yeah, I just find so much fulfillment and love in it, which is crazy, because even just that short period of time ago, I would not have thought that it would make me feel that way.
Speaker 2:And when I was looking at him at six weeks old, thinking this is when society tells moms they have to leave their babies, I'm looking at him, just sick to my stomach at the even, just the thought of having to leave him, and it's so sad how, for a lot of mothers. That isn't even an option and it makes and it sickens me that that is the case and it also kind of catapults into this other topic of the push to replace moms entirely. Moms are trying to be replaced so often for the sake of them being separate from their child, so their separation from their child is more convenient and it's easier for them. Everything, from even things as simple as swaddles and pacifiers it creates an environment to where your baby can operate without you, without the mother. I mean, if you think about it, pacifiers, pacifier companies left and right are saying, oh, this one's more nipple like, or this one is softer like a nipple, or this one whatever. But yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's what you're saying. Well, what's wrong with the nipple?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I don't. I don't believe they're garbage, that any piece of rubber is gonna taste or be like a real nipple, but I don't either sure try yeah, and that's not to say there's anything specifically wrong with pacifiers it's on, it's just an example.
Speaker 2:But even, um, electric, even electric bouncers and the bassinets that will automatically move to sue the child. It's just this constant desire to replace the mother and I just I don't know. I find so much fulfillment in just being present with him and being with him for every moment. Being his only source of comfort is such a blessing to me. I take such honor and pride in that and saying I can be the one to soothe him and make him happy. As you probably have heard a couple of times my husband's been trying to soothe him.
Speaker 1:He doesn't have the right kind of nipples.
Speaker 2:Sorry, hubby, right kind of nipples. Sorry, hubby, useless nipples but it is true.
Speaker 1:I mean, our babies grew inside of us for almost a year, practically, and there's this expectation that baby is going to be separated from us just a few weeks after birth.
Speaker 2:They don't even ever separate from you.
Speaker 1:No, they don't. They're still looking for you. They know your smell. They're calm when they're with you. Honestly, that was the most healing part after my first was a hospital birth that turned into an unnecessary C-section and all that nonsense and dramatic situation.
Speaker 1:The most healing part of that was my daughter and her sleeping on my chest, skin to skin, for every single nap, every single moment. Her being on my chest for three weeks straight was the most healing experience after something like that. And you know just to have that, oh, take him back, take him back, give him to me. He's so cute, it just is. You know, it's something that it breaks my heart about our society that it's being programmed to separate mothers and children like you said it's.
Speaker 2:It just seems like in a return there's more. There's more desire for separation than there is for being with. There's no support for moms that want that at all it's especially with, especially with co-sleeping.
Speaker 2:So I did not. I had no idea that there was even a controversy around co-sleeping. I co-slept with my parents until I was like four years old, I want to say. And then, even as a teenager and a young adult, if I would go home to go visit my mom and my dad wasn't home, I would go sleep with her Like it just wasn't weird or taboo for me. So whenever and it wasn't even like I went into motherhood with a plan I honestly cannot go into motherhood with any plans If I'm being honest, I kind of regretted it. But looking back now it was honestly one of the best decisions I made was to go into motherhood ignorant.
Speaker 2:I prepared myself mentally and educationally for my pregnancy and my labor and my delivery, but did nothing for motherhood. I just kind of winged it as I went and it's worked out beautifully. Truly. I just very instinctive and I don't think too much into anything. We don't really we don't go off of schedules at all. Um, it's just him and I and the day is how I can best describe it. But yeah, I didn't even know there was controversy around co-sleeping. And then, whenever I stepped into this very tragic dark hole of. Oh well, your baby's going to die if you go sleep with them. What, what do you mean? What, what do you mean? And but yeah, I mean just just even that too. It's. It's crazy how something that can be so normal is so fear-mongered and made to be so abnormal yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, I will say that instinctual mothering is the most stress-free form of mothering. When we're worried about schedules and we're worried about things. Controlling the situation is when it's hard, because we're trying to control the uncontrollable. So you're doing it right, You're doing it the right way. And then co-sleeping girl. I got two kids in my bed right now.
Speaker 2:My two and four actually, she's five now.
Speaker 1:My two and five year old. It's just, it's natural.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're like what if they're still sleeping in your bed and they're four or five?
Speaker 1:What if, what if, what if they're going to eventually sleep in their own beds and then sleep in there forever and ever. And then that's going to be over, and that's a very sad thing for me to even think about.
Speaker 2:I almost just said how many adults do you know that still sleep in their parents' bed? But I just admitted 30 seconds ago that I did go crawl in bed with my mom as a 20, 21 year old.
Speaker 1:Well, think about it this way how many married couples sleep together? Hopefully, almost all of them.
Speaker 2:That is a very good point.
Speaker 1:We want the comfort of our partner, yet we expect baby children that are just born out of the womb to be independent sleepers.
Speaker 2:That is such a good point. I never thought about it that way. That is awesome. Yeah, adults I mean I've heard like adults don't even sleep through the night, so how can we expect a baby to sleep through the night? They just got here. But yeah, adults, they love falling asleep. Particularly, I love falling asleep with my husband holding me. I love having my back scratched. I love being soothed to sleep. My husband has a sound machine. We're not much different from them, so why are we expecting so much out of them?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and I think that the point here, too, that we can make is that nothing has to be exactly a certain way, right? You don't have to force your kids to sleep alone. If it doesn't work and it works for you and it feels good for you to co -sleep, then do it. I do know a lot of people that have a lot of anxiety around co-sleeping because they're afraid of rolling on their baby or whatever.
Speaker 1:Then maybe that's not for them and maybe next to the bed right, like next to the bed, is good enough, or whatever the case might be.
Speaker 2:There's no right or wrong way to make the best decision for you and your baby. That's what I always say. There's no mistake if what you're doing, you believe, is the best decision.
Speaker 1:There's no mistake you can ever make there absolutely, and there's going to be ebbs and flows too. Like my oldest, I didn't co-sleep with her at nighttime when she was little little, it wasn't until she got a little bit sturdier, I jokingly say and then, as she got bigger, I co-slept with her more. Then she slept in her own bed for a little while. Now she's back. But same thing with my son. I co-slept with him way more when he was little, but then, when he got to be around a year old, he wanted to be on his own. He was like, listen, give me my space, and he was happy. But then, when he was two, back. So there's an ebb and a flow that I think. What you're pointing out here with instinctual mothering it's about following the lead of your child, but following your intuition as a mother, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, and there's no right or wrong way to do that. If it's instinctual, if you're doing things that you don't feel are working, but you're only doing them because society is telling you to or because your mom did it that way, or because you saw on the Internet that it was the best way, but it doesn't feel to make mistakes, and that's okay. There's there's no, there's no wrong way to to make decisions that are that you believe are best, but don't do something just because it's what everyone else is doing. If what everyone else is doing doesn't work for you, then don't do it. Try something else, it's okay.
Speaker 1:Be countercultural. Well, speaking of doing things that not everybody else does, you got to talk to me about this cloth diapering situation. I have never talked about this on the podcast, so it hasn't even been addressed. No one's come on and been like I cloth diaper. I know you're dabbling with cloth diapering. I thought about it for about a second and then decided not to do it. I actually have one like little package of cloth diaper that I got promo for something and then I was too scared to do it Cause I'm like I don't have time for this. Tell me, is it good? Does it work? How are you feeling about it? What's your plan? All the things that we we need to know we we cloth diapered with him full time.
Speaker 2:That was when he was very first born, up until he was probably about six weeks old. When he reached that six week gold mark, we had to start using disposables only at night, and that is because he was wetting through. He's a heavy wetter. He was wetting through his newborns through the night and we go to sleep. I got tired of getting peed on, so we switched to disposables and that's we use disposable that night.
Speaker 2:But, um, he is in between sizes right now with his cloth diapers. So instead of me buying a different brand, he's only going to be wearing for two weeks, maybe not even, because cloth diapers are expensive at first. It's a big investment and I mean you ended up saving money in the long run, but they are expensive at the first go whenever you first make your investment. Um, but his aios is all in ones they have. You can put up to two or three more um inserts in them for more absorbency, and he doesn't quite fit into those yet, so we can't use them. So we're in that weird transitional period. But the thing that I get asked the most is how do you wash them?
Speaker 1:because that seems gross well, when you're yeah, tell us about the whole situation too. With what you said about some have inserts and some don't, so we, what does that mean?
Speaker 2:so we use, um, the company Grovia. So the woman I learned about how many toxic chemicals are being put on our baby's most private parts, that, and then also just how expensive they are. And then ecologically too. I mean diapers sit in landfills for hundreds of years and just add to the continual waste that we are building up on it. Kind of I was like, well, let me just make the investment and I won't put too much pressure on myself, but let's just see how it goes. And it really has. It wasn't that bad.
Speaker 2:I remember whenever he was a newborn and we did our first round of laundry with his cloth diapers and I was like this isn't, this isn't bad, like there's no different than taking out the trash with disposables. But, uh, so we use the company Grovia and they are, um, what was recommended by my family member that they're the best, they're the only ones that have held up for more than one kid, and that's another thing is you can use cloth diapers for multiple generations of kids if you invest in the proper ones. So I love Grovia. That is the brand I recommend to everyone, as you can buy your diaper and it comes with an insert, but then you can add more inserts as your baby grows, so it increases the absorbency in the diaper, and then they have the snaps and the folds that grow with your baby also. So the all-in-ones can fit a baby from I believe it's 10 pounds all the way up to 45 pounds.
Speaker 2:So that one diaper Adjustable sizing.
Speaker 2:Yes, adjustable sizing along with adjustable absorbency. Another thing that's really good about cloth diapers is they help potty training immensely. I'm trying to remember the name of it, but there's an amazing study that shows that when babies are able to feel wet and uncomfortable instead of dry, it helps them in the potty training process significantly, and so that also just was really kind of helped me make the decision with it and, like I said, I didn't put too much pressure on myself with it and it's not. It's not that bad, but the whole laundering is the one that gets everyone. They're like you put poopy diapers in your washing machine, and to that I asked well, if they have an accident on clothing, do you just throw their clothing away or do you wash their clothes? I wash the clothes. I don't know if we're throwing away onesies every time they have a blowout, but yeah, yeah uh, we just I do laundry about every two days with them.
Speaker 2:Um, in total he has about 24 newborn diapers, so about 12 diapers a day. Um, and the way you have laundry your cloth diapers depends on the hardness of your water. So our water is really really hard and you can get a water hardness build up on your diapers if you don't wash them correctly. So we actually have to do two cycles to properly wash our diapers. But for somebody that has soft water, they can just wash their diapers like they would a normal load of laundry.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're washing a load every day, like turning it over every day, and that actually makes a good point. You made a good point about the moisture wicking aspect of a disposable versus they can feel the wetness in a cloth diaper. That is something that I do see what you're saying about how it can help with potty training, because my two-year-old has been recently potty trained and I actually got him training underwear for when he first started wearing underwear after he was potty trained and it's like it kind of stops the pee from coming out if they have an accident Not all the way, but it makes it so they can feel it and he was like, nah, not doing that again. Again, I don't like this. I don't like that feeling of peeing on myself, but because he had been in disposable diapers, he wasn't used to that feeling of being in clothes and then having the feeling of pee. So I can yeah, I can see how that would help. I've never had a real life account of that.
Speaker 2:That was just something that I read.
Speaker 1:That.
Speaker 2:you heard that I heard that I read and I was like, I mean, it makes sense it does.
Speaker 1:It actually does make sense Because, if you think about it, so when I, most people and when I first potty trained my daughter and now my son, we didn't potty train at night, we potty trained during the day and then at night. It's like you do that a little bit later. Most people not everybody, some people do it all at the same time, and so that means you're putting either a diaper or a pull-up on them, and so they're back to that feeling of they can pee themselves, they can wet themselves, and they're not really going to feel it because they're wearing a diaper. And so then, once you put them in regular clothes or they don't have a diaper on and they're just wearing pants or they're wearing underwear that when they pee in it they feel it. That's their alert alarm system. So I definitely think there's something to it. Are you going to do the elimination communication thing too? Do you think? Have you? I have a feeling you've looked into that. I've read I have.
Speaker 2:I've read the book um diaper free baby, which is the elimination communication, and honestly I think that a lot of the elimination communication is I don't know, it's just something. It's one of those things where I'm not trying to think too much into it but I feel like instinctively, that's how I will lead, automatically. I feel like it's going to be like oh, he's queuing, he needs to go to the bathroom, we're going to go to the bathroom, and then that's just kind of how it starts. And I know people that have done it extremely successfully, and then I also know people that it just did not work for them at all whatsoever. So I think I think I'm going to try. I think that's kind of where I'm going to lead. I'm going to try it, um, but again, it's not going to put too much pressure on myself.
Speaker 1:As far as that being what my plan is, I guess I could say Sure, and for those listening that might not be familiar, ec or elimination communication is this process where you teach potty training kind of over time or a little bit earlier as their babies, where you learn their cues of when they're going to go number one or number two. And I would say it's probably a little bit easier for people to have cloth diapers but I have no idea because I don't have any. You drop the diaper and then you put the baby on this little top hat looking thing and the baby can go in it, or you bring them to the toilet and they start to associate you know, removal of the diaper, going on the potty, let's call it, and they start to potty train. A lot of people's kids will potty train before they're two, just kind of naturally on their own by doing this method.
Speaker 1:I have a friend that does EC and potty. I wouldn't necessarily say her kids have been potty trained early per se. I think they both went through the process. Still we're finishing around two, two and a half, but it probably helped with the process of potty training because every kid is different Not all of them want to go on the potty, so I'm sure that it made the process easier when she got there. You know, yes, and I I think it's interesting, I'm fascinated by it I do too.
Speaker 2:I have, um, I have a friend that did it and she had her. I think he was only eight weeks old and she would hold him. She'd be like, oh, he's going to go to the bathroom, hold him over the potty, and then he would go. She'd be like, well, now I don't want to change the diaper or waste the diaper, and I'm like that is so crazy.
Speaker 1:It is crazy.
Speaker 2:That's instinctual mothering to another level that I don't even know about, because I cannot tell from one moment to the next when he's laughing, when he's giggling, when he's crying to, when he's going to the bathroom. I just, I don't know, I just don't have that hey sounds like you'll get there, though you know, you never know.
Speaker 1:I didn't know about these things when I had my first, but when I had my second I'm like this is kind of interesting, but I don't know. I don't know if I've got it in me but it is an interesting concept for sure.
Speaker 1:Now I will say I got really really, really, really fortunate with my second. So my first was a girl. She was tough to potty train. She was ready, she knew. But we tried once right before she turned two, because she was like expressing interest in going on the potty and all that, and then it just didn't. You know, she was having accidents and everything. So I waited another month and then tried again and I would say it took her till the third or fourth day. I use the book oh crap, potty training method, where they're just like naked and you wait to see when they're going to go and then you bring them to the potty, right? Well, then here comes my son. I put off potty training him. I'm like I'll potty train him when he's good and ready. Guess what, one day this kid just goes and takes his diaper off and sits on the toilet and goes to the bathroom and he potty trained himself. He literally started potty training himself.
Speaker 2:So all right, mom, if you're not gonna do it, I'll do it myself exactly he probably heard me talking about.
Speaker 1:She's not gonna potty train me. All right, I'm gonna do it. I'm going. And now my now 18 month old, my little one, she sees all this commotion, all of us all go into the bathroom and she's so cute. She toddles in there and sits on the little tiny potty like she's going and I'm like maybe I should teach her she.
Speaker 2:She looks ready, so yeah, I think that's also just following your baby's leads also. I mean, I don't. I like I don't know if there's any harm in doing that, are you okay? My cat just flung himself off the bed.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you saw, it actually almost looked like the other one beat him off. Is that what we're going to have? To review this footage? I think that there was a cat fight going on back there. That's so funny. I thought it was actually a dog for a second. I was like, oh no, the dog fell off the bed. But then I saw the other cat and I'm like I think the two cats were fighting. Sorry about that. No, that's hilarious. So thank you for sharing. On cloth diapering. Hopefully, if anybody has questions, they can come follow you and follow the journey.
Speaker 2:Like the company I the only cloth diapers I've used is Grovia and, okay, I had a single problem with them. I really, really like Grovia. I know there are so many different other amazing companies and what works for me might not work for you, so just kind of do your research as far as that goes. But Grovia is the company I use and I love them.
Speaker 1:Cool. My mom tried to give me some tips on cloth diapering because she always likes to say we didn't really have diapers when you were a baby. We had the cloth diaper, you know, and she would explain to me how she would like spray off the poopy diapers and whatever. And then you have to go through that whole process. I was laughing when you said people don't throw away their clothes when the kid has a blowout. Right, I did once because I was at the airport and there was a blowout and I'm like I started washing the outfit and I'm like I'm not bringing this in my carry on right now. I had no attachments to this old crusty outfit.
Speaker 2:I'm like it's going to be trash okay, I would have done that same thing. I probably would not have even been clocked by bringing an airport.
Speaker 1:That sounds like the nightmare oh, that one went, that one totally went, and now I don't know if you care to share what disposables you use at night, if you have a brand that you love or whatnot I've been using a coterie, okay, I don't know like.
Speaker 2:That was just kind of like the brand I landed on that I felt comfortable using for him. Um, I know there's a bunch of other.
Speaker 1:I know kudos is also a really good um low tox diaper brand too okay, I really have wanted Coterie, but because you can only buy them online, it was like the one thing that was deterring me.
Speaker 2:It was me too. I was like, can I buy them just in a store? But I mean, you buy them and the shipping? It says it's only, I think, four to five days shipping. It's over a week every time. Okay, so just prepare for that yeah, good to know.
Speaker 1:I have gone with millie moon more here recently because that was the closest that you can get at the store to coterie, because you're right, I mean, it's just another thing with a bunch of chemicals in it and dyes and all this stuff that is literally on our babies 24-7. So it is important for us to think about. And the thing that's interesting to me is that the price point for Millie Moon, which is on the crunchier side of diapers, is about, or even less than, pampers, and I'm like I would never if that's the choice that we have here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, even if it was a penny more, I would go with it to not Sorry Pampers.
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah, sorry, not sorry.
Speaker 1:Sorry, not sorry. We're not looking for a sponsorship from Pampers over here. Well, anything else that you would like to share with listeners today You've been so graceful and to give your time to share about your story and, yeah, anything else that you want to share with moms or our listeners?
Speaker 2:today, I guess just pretty much try and whenever you're you want to, whenever you want to get pregnant, whenever you start planning for those kinds of things. The way to avoid birth trauma is to be as informed as possible and every single way possible, regardless of how you want your birth to look. If that's going to the hospital and getting an epidural and all the works, that's great. That is your decision and it needs to be honored and respected, just like a home birth or a free birth, in my opinion. But knowing what it is that you're doing and having all the facts in front of you and being able to make decisions informed can save you from so much potential heartache and trauma, regardless of what you're you want your birth to look like.
Speaker 2:I believe that women are smart and we're capable to have all of the resources and knowledge to make our own decisions, regardless of what that looks like. There's no right or wrong way to do it. There's no right or wrong decision if the decision is made from a state of safety and being informed. So this idea of oh, my birth plan is just not to die. It's well, let's see why you might think that that is the only thing that you are able to ask of your birth. Let's dissect that a little bit Um. But yeah, other than that, I'm so incredibly blessed that you asked me to be on this podcast and I get to talk about something I'm really passionate about and that I love to talk about for gosh over an hour, I think now. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it too.
Speaker 2:So I just I'm just so honored and blessed to have met you and for you to have me come on here.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. It's been awesome. I love everything that you're all these past. You're going down. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and, yeah, we're looking forward to it. I want to encourage folks to go follow. Her Instagram handle is hey again, hayden, h-a-d-e-n dot we L-E-E dot Johnson. Or on TikTok at hey H E Y Y D E N. Oh, I love that's cute. So, yes, do go follow Hayden. She shares awesome content and all the stuff about this. And listen, I want to make a little prediction here.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I think it's not going to be long before you got two of those cute little babies. With how much you love physiological birth and all this stuff. You remind me a lot of myself after I had my second and I was like let's do this again. This was awesome.
Speaker 2:I mean whenever the lord's got in store for me, I'll welcome, as he's crying in the background.
Speaker 1:He just misses you. He needs his mama. It's about his time. So thank you again, and thank you all for tuning in and for being on this journey with us. If you'd like to follow along outside the podcast, you can follow the mission on Instagram, facebook or YouTube at the radiant mission. And today we're going to close with Hayden's favorite verse, which we have used on this podcast so many times because we love it, and that's Psalm 139, 14. I praise you because I was fearfully and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, I know that full well, and we are wishing you a radiant week. We'll see you next time. Bye, everyone.
